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Frog
New member
Username: Frog

Post Number: 3
Registered: 08-2002
Posted on Wednesday, July 30, 2003 - 08:54 pm:   

What is the status on getting El Dorado widened from the DNT to FM 423? Will it be done in time for the new middle school to open next year? Also there is a really bad bump in the road on the westbound side right at Teel. Can this be fixed?
 

Brian
Moderator
Username: Brian

Post Number: 102
Registered: 07-2001
Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 04:05 pm:   

TxDOT has approved the schematic and preliminary engineering plans that were completed by the City of Frisco. We have now started the final design for this portion of Eldorado. Once the plans are complete, the project will be turned over to TxDOT for funding and construction.

The project will not be completed by the time the new middle school opens in the fall of 2004. At this time, TxDOT does not having funding for the project. Therefore, I donít have estimated construction start and completion dates.

I have requested that the Denton area TxDOT office repair the asphalt near the intersection of Teel.

Thanks
Brian Moen
Traffic Engineer
bmoen@ci.frisco.tx.us
 

Shafi_haque
New member
Username: Shafi_haque

Post Number: 9
Registered: 01-2003
Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 04:20 pm:   

How about reduce the speed limit from 55 to 45 MPH.

One other thing, what is the current plan for FM 423. I saw some one doing Asphalt carpeting from Eldorado to 720 intersection.

Thanks
 

My_business
New member
Username: My_business

Post Number: 2
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 07:11 am:   

There seems to be a lot of concern regarding roads which are heavily traveled before new schools are opened (such as, El Dorado and Coit) not being widened and improved prior to schools being opening versus the increased traffic on these roads once the schools are opened. Does the City not require the school district and itself to perform traffic studies on these roads in order for the school developments to occur? Developers are required to provide studies to make sure the roads are sufficient for increases in traffic due to their developments. Does the City not require this study for its own projects?

I realize new schools are needed for the number of children. However, roads are needed to support the schools. Why are the roads not being put in place. The City does control Coit. El Dorado is a county road. A city employee stated on a previous post that Coit improvements were not included in the first bond package. What money was used for roads before we had bonds? Was it not general City money? Why can this money not be spent widening these roads? The City always brings up the money issue. The City sure does find money for projects like the ballpark, Frisco Square (no, they are not 100% privately funded), and improvements for the "gateways" into Frisco. Why is Coit not considered a gateway and receiving attention?
 

Frog
New member
Username: Frog

Post Number: 4
Registered: 08-2002
Posted on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 07:29 am:   

Thanks for the info Brian but the fact that the road will still be a 2 lane asphault at the time the new middle school opens concerns me. Is there anything that the city or citizens can do to get this project made a high priority?

(Message edited by amyg on August 01, 2003)
 

Brian
Moderator
Username: Brian

Post Number: 103
Registered: 07-2001
Posted on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 10:09 am:   

Frog,

I understand your concern. We are continually working with TxDOT to make sure this road project gets done as quickly as possible.

How are we doing that?

Normally TxDOT does the schematic plans and all of the design work for a project along a state highway such as FM 2934. They either do this work in house or hire a consultant to do it. TxDOT did not have the resources available to start the design of this project a couple of years ago. As a result, the City of Frisco has partnered with Denton County to get all of the design work done for TxDOT. This process started nearly two years ago. We currently have the schematic completed and approved by TxDOT. We are now working on completing the engineering plans. Those plans are expected to be complete by April 2004. When the design is complete, TxDOT will have a project that is ready for construction when money comes available.

In addition to the design, we are also working on acquiring all of the right-of-way TxDOT will need to construct the project. Lastly, we are working on getting the utilities relocated for the construction.

How does that help?

Often times when the TxDOT funding cycle comes up each year, there are projects that have had funds earmarked for them that are not ready to construct. When that happens, TxDOT will then look to use the money on projects that have designs complete and are ready for construction. By having the design already completed, we are hoping that this project can get constructed sooner when a different project isnít ready for construction.

We are also continually looking for ways to find alternative funding sources for the construction of these roadways. For example, in this case we are working with Denton County to get the design complete. We are taking the same approach along FM 423. Along FM 3537, the project is further along and is nearly ready for construction. In this case, we have worked with Collin County to get FM 3537 on the upcoming Collin County Bond election.

I urge you to contact your local state and county representatives to let them know how important road construction is here in Texas. Currently, the State only has the money to fund about 1/3 of all the road construction projects that are needed in the State of Texas. That means Eldorado is competing for money along with many other projects that donít have money. Each legislative session, our local political officials and area transportation professionals work with our legislature to stress the importance of transportation in an effort to increase funding. This past legislative session has tried to look at ways to increase the funding so we can build, operate, and maintain our transportation system. That has included the increased use of toll roads, higher gas taxes, increased user fees, and other alternative funding sources. Try the following link to see what kind of things are going on at the legislative level to try and improve the funding for much needed transportation projects. http://www.dfwinfo.com/trans/

Thanks
Brian Moen
bmoen@ci.frisco.tx.us
 

Brian
Moderator
Username: Brian

Post Number: 104
Registered: 07-2001
Posted on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 10:25 am:   

Shafi,

In the fall of 2002, I requested that TxDOT perform a speed study to see if the speed limit could be lowered from its current 55mph. In January of 2003, TxDOT honored our request and performed the necessary studies. Their recommendation from those studies was to maintain the current 55mph speed limit.

TxDOT recently chip sealed the asphalt along that portion of FM 423. This was done for maintenance purposes only.

Brian Moen
Traffic Engineer
bmoen@ci.frisco.tx.us

 

Brian
Moderator
Username: Brian

Post Number: 105
Registered: 07-2001
Posted on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 10:40 am:   

My Business,

I will have a response for you on the traffic study portion of your question by next Monday afternoon.

Thanks
Brian Moen
bmoen@ci.frisco.tx.us
 

Shafi_haque
New member
Username: Shafi_haque

Post Number: 10
Registered: 01-2003
Posted on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 10:45 am:   

Adding with other posting, few other points:

El Dorado, from DNT to 423 is feeding by several new subdivisions, beside other through traffic. Grayhawk is the biggest on, and it is half full. So my question is along other posting why City of Frisco approves all these subdivisions, without traffic studies or widens this Road. I do not have any idea how City does approval of these new subdivisions, with out requiring road improvements.

Now, fact is we need to find some way how we need to widen El Dorado, before This Middle School open. So, my question to the City shows us the way how we can do this.

Thanks in advance,
 

Brian
Moderator
Username: Brian

Post Number: 106
Registered: 07-2001
Posted on Monday, August 04, 2003 - 01:35 pm:   

My Business and Shafi,

My Business - My response essentially addresses the concerns over traffic studies. Other members of our staff will be answering the second part to your question.

Shafi Ė I think this response addresses your latest questions as well.

The traffic impact analysis (TIA) ordinance can be found at http://www.ci.frisco.tx.us/planning/Comp_zoning_ord_92701/Article%20IV/Article_I V_Section_10.pdf. This ordinance describes if and when a TIA will be required. There are instances where both public and private developments are not required to do a TIA. The reason for this decision varies, but most often involves situations where the applicant already has the zoning in place, or the necessary improvements can be required under our other ordinances, or the development is single-family residential in an area that complies with our comprehensive plan.

In the past, TIAs have been conducted for several projects involving public funds. These projects include Frisco Square, the Frisco Sports Complex (baseball/hockey), the Platinum Business Park, and Dallas Burn Soccer complex. The school district had also performed a traffic study for a potential stadium/natatorium site that has since been abandoned. We are requiring TIAs for future high school sites.

The City works very closely with the Frisco Independent School District (FISD) in developing schools sites. A lot of effort on part of the City and FISD goes towards working with landowners to coordinate the development of schools and building the road(s). There have been times when the roads have not been available as planned due to the fact that the right-of-way had not been acquired as anticipated, such as Coit Road. In a fast growing community, such as Frisco, there will be times where everything is not worked out due to problems with right-of-way acquisition or unforeseen road construction issues.

Unfortunately, the best land available for a school site does not always mean the best land available for traffic. This is a common issue no matter what part of the country you are in. You are welcome to research this topic further and many publications will point this fact out. By working closely with FISD, we hope to mitigate as many traffic issues as possible.

As for the Griffin Parc Middle School, we are working with FISD, TxDOT, and Denton County in getting funding to build left turn lanes on Eldorado to serve the area around the school. What limits our abilities on this roadway is that the City does not have control over this road since it is owned and operated by the Texas Department of Transportation. As such, we cannot widen this roadway in the same fashion that we widen other City roadways. Please note in my previous response how we are working to expedite the widening of Eldorado (FM 2934).

Brian Moen
Traffic Engineer
bmoen@ci.frisco.tx.us
 

My_business
New member
Username: My_business

Post Number: 3
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 07:38 am:   

Brian,

Thank you for the information. However, your information brings up additional questions.

First, why was the Traffic Impact Analysis waived. You provided the ordinance but the ordinance states zoning and/or development would trigger the requirement. We know the zoning clause is not applicable since a school is permitted by use in all zoning classifications. Under the development part, site plans and plats also trigger a TIA if more than 100 trips are generated by the development. According to the trip generation tables and FISD student population numbers, this school will generate more than 100 trips during peak hours. Therefore, why was a TIA not performed? Your post says future high schools will require one, but why was this school not required to?

Second, the TIA ordinance says "for certain projects the City may require an enlarged study area." For a high school with a projected population of 1500-1800 students then add the teachers required to maintain the 15-20 students per teacher FISD says they will maintain (see latest Frisco Style) and then add regular school staff, why was the length of Coit which is not 4 lanes not the required study area?

Third, you stated "the best land available for a school site does not always mean the best land available for traffic." Why are the roads not required to support a school of this size where a high number of students will be driving themselves? This is not an elementary school with bus service. The students will be driving.

Fourth, you stated FISD works closely with landowners to coordinate development but it is not always achievable due to right-of-way. Did the City and/or FISD approach the landowner to acquire right-of-way or did the City parties ignor this and use it as an excuse now? How far did the City take negotiations with the landowner?

Can the City honestly state that a development of this magnitude would have been permitted if the site were a commercial, retail, or office complex development without the proper supporting road infrastructure being in place? Would Hall Office Park or the Center of Preston Ridge been permitted without the full roads being build?
 

Shafi_haque
New member
Username: Shafi_haque

Post Number: 11
Registered: 01-2003
Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 10:05 am:   

Hi Brian,

Thanks for your detail reply.

Now, add to your points, what required construction of 4 lanes El Dorado west of FM423. Is not it same requirement apply for the segments between DNT to F423, also. If you say west of 423 is in Little Elm, then I got asked this question, ďFriscoís requirements for Traffic is less then Little Elm?Ē or some one drop the ball on this.

Finally my question is how City can help to expedite the construction of this segment (DNT to 423), before school start. Without this expansion I see lots of Traffic accidents on horizon.

Thanks again,
-- Shafi


(Message edited by karinh on August 05, 2003)
 

Karinh
Moderator
Username: Karinh

Post Number: 71
Registered: 07-2002
Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 04:32 pm:   

Dear My Business,
Here are the answers to your financial questions regarding Coit Road. Please contact me directly if you have any further questions.

There are several roads within the city that are on the county road system both Coit and Eldorado are on the county system. Coit improvements are being funded out of various sources, from the Collin County and from the City. There is a limited amount of funds that are available for the various projects that are needed. As is the case with all the transportation projects even beyond the City, there are more projects than there is available funds. Thus, the need for the City to issue bonds to fund those capital projects. Coit Road is being improved and funded, the anticipated completion of two lanes is August 15th.

Scott Young
Assistant City Manager
972-335-5551 x120
syoung@ci.frisco.tx.us
 

Brian
Moderator
Username: Brian

Post Number: 108
Registered: 07-2001
Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 06:00 pm:   

Shafi,

In Frisco, FM 2934 is a State Highway controlled by TxDOT. West of FM 423, the 4-lane Eldorado section you are referring to is NOT on the State Highway system. Little Elm controls this section of roadway instead of the State. Why? Little Elm controls this piece because FM 2934 did not extend west of FM 423. Little Elmís section of Eldorado was built with development in much the same manner that roads not on the State Highway system are built by developments here in Frisco.

As for expediting the construction - I have answered that in my previous posts. Please refer to those responses. If you have further questions, please call me at 972-335-5580 x196.

Thanks
Brian Moen
Traffic Engineer
bmoen@ci.frisco.tx.us
 

Karinh
Moderator
Username: Karinh

Post Number: 72
Registered: 07-2002
Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 08:45 am:   

Dear My Business,
Answers to your questions are as follows:
The city attempted to negotiate and is still attempting to negotiate the acquisition of the ROW for the development of Coit Road. We are also pursuing via eminent domain the row if we are unable to reach an agreement.

As you have stated, many of the developments that have come to Frisco are dependent upon infrastructure being in place. However, as you will also notice is that those development are occurring along roads that have been improved. Our challenge is to develop infrastructure to the extent that we try and keep up with development. There are times, like Coit, where we had hoped that the road work would have been done sooner. The City tries to the best of our abilities and resources to complete projects in a timely manner.

Scott Young
Assistant City Manager
972-335-5551 x120
syoung@ci.frisco.tx.us
 

Brian
Moderator
Username: Brian

Post Number: 112
Registered: 07-2001
Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 08:30 pm:   

My Business,

Schools and churches are allowed by right and thus could not have been held up or denied based on the results of a traffic impact study. Given the location of the school, both City staff and FISD staff understood that roadway improvements were going to be needed before the school opened. This was acknowledged in staff recommendations to P&Z and the City Council after the site plan was brought forward in January 2001.

Study areas for traffic impact studies are determined when meeting with an applicant. Enlarged study areas are usually needed for very large projects that generate a large number of trips. For example something like Stonebriar Centre, Frisco Square, or the Platinum Business Park would require an enlarged study area.

We do understand that students will drive to this site. Keep in mind though the school will only open with 9th and 10th grade students and will have a significantly smaller number of student drivers going to the school in comparison to the existing Frisco High School.

Thanks
Brian Moen
Traffic Engineer
bmoen@ci.frisco.tx.us
 

Mattmcghee
New member
Username: Mattmcghee

Post Number: 7
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 02:18 pm:   

Brian,
Thanks for the clear explanation of how the process works. Your comments also raise a couple of additional questions. If the site plan was presented in January 2001, that would have given the city over 2.5 years to build the road? This seems like plenty of time, and in reality, this was known to be the school site for some time before that date. You generally know how long the construction takes, and we've known the school open date for a long time. If the right of way negotiations were dragging on to the point of not allowing the construction to be complete on time, why was the condemnation process not used.

Next question, your comments imply that you recognize that 2 lanes of road are inadequate for the traffic that will exist in this area. Your point about only having two grades at the HS are valid, but brings to mind a question. Will Coit and Rolater be expanded to 4 lanes each within the next year or so to accommodate the even greater traffic flow?
 

Brian Moen, Traffic Engineer
Moderator
Username: Brian

Post Number: 113
Registered: 07-2001
Posted on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 06:38 pm:   

Matt,

I didn't mean to imply that 4 lanes would be needed. We recognized that the roads at least needed to be built or reconstructed. In the case of Rolater it needed to be built because it didnít exist between Hillcrest and Coit. Coit on the other hand did exist, but needed to be rebuilt into a concrete section.

At this time the volumes on Coit and Rolater are relatively low. As a result, there is remaining capacity in this area for additional traffic.

We expect to finish the expansion of Coit to four lanes from Centennial High School to Main in the near future. I do not have a time line since it is completely dependent on the right-of-way acquisition.

We do not have any construction plans completed at this time for the remaining expansion of Coit to four lanes from Centennial, south to Lebanon. We do not have any construction plans complete at this time for expansion of Rolater to four lanes from the new FISD service center to Coit.

Other members of our staff will provide an answer to your question concerning the right-of-way.

Thanks
Brian Moen
bmoen@ci.frisco.tx.us
Traffic Engineer

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